SHOW NOTES
In this episode of Habits for Humans with Kim Flynn, we discuss how It’s not what your body looks like, it’s how you feel in your body. It is tempting to buy into thinking your body is your value in a society that validates self-betrayal in order to be skinny.
Welcome to Habits for Humans, the show that explores how to program your brain to maximize your potential. The goal of this podcast is to teach you how to instill systems and habits to live a healthy, sustainable, deeply satisfying way of life.
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Kim Flynn is a best-selling author, podcaster, and serial entrepreneur who has built multiple businesses to 7 and 8 figures. She is the CEO of Card Salad, a health and wellness company that provides organizational products to live a healthy, sustainable, deeply satisfying way of life. Kim is a frequent guest expert in systems and habits on podcasts, television and radio shows.
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TRANSCRIPT
Hi, and welcome to habits for humans. The podcast that explores what makes people tick and how to program this brain of ours, this body of ours. And today we’re going to talk about programming our emotions as well, which is kind of. Uh, which is kind of cool. Uh, we’re going to program them to do what we want them to do is not a novel thought. We’re going to explore what we can sometimes. And in some areas of our lives achieve extraordinary accomplishments.
And in other areas, we are addicted to Cheetos and sleep 10 hours a day. If we want to be healthy and happy, what is the secret to programming our brain to maximizing our potential? I’m your host, Kim Flynn. And today we’re going to talk. Uh, to Becky Mueller and Nisha Woodhouse. Uh, both Becky and Nisha have spent years of their lives devoting themselves to healing their own past traumas. Both women experienced eating disorders.
In their younger years and struggled with body trauma. Um, and they have given me a statement. I absolutely love. They said your body will give you wisdom. You can’t access in any other way. I’ve been looking forward to this podcast ever since talking to them a bit ago and wanting to hear, uh, how do you access this wisdom?
Actually, Becky and Nisha, I’ve been, I’ve been paying attention ever since I talked to you about what my body is trying to tell me. And I got to tell you it’s, it’s, it’s sending out signals that I don’t know how to read them. So I’m excited to hear from you guys on how to read what your body is trying to tell you.
Cause I’m not speaking that language yet. So I would love to hear, um, And explore that with them. We have a giveaway for our listeners at the end, from both Becky and Nisha and also from our sponsor card salad. Uh, so if you like free stuff, stay tuned until the end. A word from our sponsor habits for humans is brought to you by card salad. It’s a health and wellness company.
That teaches you how to program your brain using systems and habits. So you know how everyone wants to eat healthy, but meal planning is a pain in the rear. It is, it takes hours a week. And I know this because I do it every week for my company. It’s called card salad. We do done for you meal planning.
So here’s your meal planning board behind me, recipes. You hang it on your fridge. Your kids always know what to eat and you don’t go to the freezer for quick, you know, Mac and cheese, frozen pizza and chicken nuggets. Uh, because your meal planning is all done for you. It comes with shopping lists for you every week, as well as habit cards to slowly build those habits and systematize your eating.
Um, so stay tuned at the end of this podcast, we have a free one week of content for you with one week of recipes. One week of shopping lists, your meal planning done for you for a week. So stay tuned to the end of this podcast. And we’ll give that to you.
Positive Body Image
So let’s introduce Becky and Nisha, Becky Mueller and Nisha Woodhouse, own Lifehouse, body and soul, a wellness center that offers minus, sorry, mindfulness, meditation, fitness and community. Becky has over 15 years experience teaching group exercise and mindful meditation.
Uh, as former executive director of essay lifeline foundation, she also has years of experience in 12 step recovery. Really interesting writing recovery materials, developing programs and curriculums and facilitating groups, Nisha owns and operates Lifehouse performing arts academy. One of the largest performing arts studios in Utah.
We’re so excited to have you guys here. Welcome. Thank you. Yes. So let’s jump in here. Talk to me about, uh, I don’t want to go too deeply into the trauma that you experienced, but if you wouldn’t mind touching on that, um, telling us about the body trauma that you’ve experienced and then how you listen to your bodies. Let’s jump in there. So Becky, if you want to start and then Nisha after.
Um, Lycra.
With
Wisconsin.
And the people in Wisconsin. But my family, all the people around me. They’re just enjoying life and.
just
a
little bit
bit bigger.
And I’m feeling like that was normal. That was
probably
the way I
way I was gonna
Live my life.
um, when I was about 18. as perfectionists alive. As my life and suddenly that perfectionism.
Shifted over to that body.
body.
and
and I.
of just stopped eating.
And
became really.
Focused on.
My body.
Shape and
weight.
And I saw. Really clearly how.
um,
As my size diminished.
My value. Escalated.
Socially. Um, in a lot of ways.
And
uh
so for the next 18 years of my life, I lost my period.
Because I was too thin. And
And then for the next about 18
of my life,
I
Didn’t have a
period And
and I am struggled with.
Infertility then obviously.
And.
Just
of
carrying the weight of.
This body anxiety.
Um,
and.
trauma around my body. But I also felt that it was manageable and I also felt that
that it was somewhat normal.
And.
um, Then I.
Experienced another trauma.
Totally out of. Left-field and
and that was betrayal trauma.
And that
just absolutely.
kind of.
me
me down.
When you talk about rock-bottom.
That was a rock bottom. It
was,
it was a place where I was definitely in over.
my
ability to
Cope or
or the tools that I had.
Use the
rest of my life.
to scratch through and, um,
Suck it
it up.
Or
However you might say.
Just, we’re
not We’re not working.
Okay. So I have to stop you there for a second. This is such good stuff. You’ve said like five things that I’m like, oh, that’s good. Oh, that’s good. Um, so you talked about as my size diminished, my social value increased. I think that’s a reality, um, that oftentimes me and other people who talk a lot about body positivity and, um, and, and, and whole health, um, it kind of gloss over and that is, there really is social value in our culture to being really thin.
And it’s interesting that, um, that you just admit that and say, yes, my social value went up. So I want you to talk more about that. Let’s actually start there. Talk to me more about that first.
Yeah, well, I think my whole early life.
I
really put my value in other
of.
My personality because I. I didn’t feel that my
my appearance was.
Super valuable.
I
didn’t see myself as attractive or it wasn’t received.
We’re seeing that kind of attention. So I
became really academic and really smart and a really high achiever.
And,
And um, It’s interesting. That when I shifted that focus and suddenly I
I was.
Getting.
a
as being attractive.
Everything else I have to say.
Suddenly mattered more.
more.
Suddenly people listen more.
to what I
I had to say.
And I think that puts us in an
in an interesting position as women.
Um
Um, because.
We want to have power. Because of who we are.
And yet we have to grapple with the reality that in the world.
we’re
we’re living in.
somehow.
Our
our appearance.
Um,
Does affect the way. The way
we’re received. That’s the way people
us.
Yeah
something that we have to kind of.
Figure out how to grapple with that. You know,
know, it’s, it’s a complex topic. We want women to have power, right? We want us to be able to do whatever we want to do. Um, but the, the culture that we live in right now says you will have more power, more value. If you look like society standards, it’s, it’s dicey. It’s a dicey topic. I’m glad you brought that up and just said it is a conundrum here. Um,
Okay. So thanks for bringing that up. Another, another topic, um, that just hit home for me. Um, the first topic hit home for me too. I get it. And I lived that and I feel that, and I see. Uh, influencers online saying, why do I get 10 times the likes when I put makeup on versus when I don’t, you know, like, why is that so tied for women? Why does our power have to come through beauty through society’s standards of beauty? Right.
Um, so you and me both drives me crazy. Okay. The next one is body anxiety. You thought it was normal and it was manageable. I think that’s where 99% of the population lives. Um, we have body anxiety. We know that we don’t love feeling this uncomfortableness, but it’s manageable. Will you talk to me more about that?
And I promise we will get to you. We will get to both of you, but this is such good stuff.
That’s great stuff.
Um,
I would say. I thought that that was normal. I thought my life was kind of
of this dance
as I was in these childbearing years.
I wanted to have a family,
this dance of like
Gaining a little bit of weight.
ways so I
get pregnant and then. Nursing.
Restricting calories.
And getting
see how skinny I
could get back.
Before I
I had to kind of.
Do the whole thing.
Um, over again.
And I felt that that was normal. And I felt that I was managing that pretty well.
but
And this is kind of.
I want to put this in there because I think it also speaks to the last topic.
when I
hit this. Wow.
The trail trauma.
and my husband had.
um Betrayed me.
That happened at a time when my
weight was like,
The lowest.
had been in my
my married life.
And I
I had to hit a point.
That trauma, as opposed to the body trauma. Was not
not manageable for me.
I could not just push through the day and
and just kind of be stressed or anxious or whatever.
was like, I was
flat on the
floor and I could not function.
And
That was a
was a
in my
in my life.
Because it pushed me to the place where I had to recognize there was. There had to be another way to live. And it actually took me to the place where I could get to the roots.
Of those beliefs.
And say. You know, obviously there was something in me that thought I was protecting myself somehow.
From abandonment.
Rejection.
But I was somehow securing.
love by being thin.
And that was what was driving this.
Behavior. Anxiety in
and this.
This drive.
And clearly. It didn’t work. So as I.
Hit that place.
And could see very clearly. The fruitlessness of all those efforts. That’d be trail.
Trauma
That rock bottom is what created the space and the possibility for me to find.
Another way
to live.
To actually heal to actually heal. Instead of.
Right.
So the eating disorders were all band-aids trying to prove your value, prove your value. And so finally you had this blowout in your life where you couldn’t just manage it through a band-aid you had to heal. That is so powerful.
So powerful. Okay. Nisha. I want to hear from you, Becky. Thank you so much. That was, uh, made me cry maybe. Uh, teared up a little bit. That powerful story. Go ahead, Nisha. I want to hear, I want to hear from you.
It was so I,
So the first thing
thing that I.
experienced body trauma was
when I was four years.
old.
Um,
I came home from a
from a dance class.
And.
was wearing a little leotard and.
I remember vividly.
Coming down the stairs to make.
And my
my sister who was
or 13 was.
At junior high
high cheerleader.
And she was having practice.
Um, in her family room. And.
so some of her cheerleading friends were over. And I
was just
around the room.
You can
in just a typical little kid.
where.
There’s no.
like self objectification
at that point.
I was
in my body.
Um,
And one of my sister’s friends looked at me. And she
she looked at my sister.
And
she just.
It just felt like
this.
distain, like
She said. She has.
a belly.
And it was
was this like,
As a little child.
I just
just remember.
You know,
just feeling fleshed and all of
this
he was the first time that I
that I felt shame.
And.
I just
just
the little preschooler.
And then it’ll
That little belly. But it felt like something is wrong with
with me.
Um,
and I remember running upstairs.
Hiding behind my bed.
and just crying.
I want in my room and I never told anyone.
it felt
so
so incredibly.
shameful.
Um,
and then, and growing up.
like I, um,
I was not like.
Through grade
school and stuff. I wasn’t.
thin.
just a little more ground
And I had another experience I had. I had multiple, like little, those little
little messages.
they get sent to you that.
Just,
You know, create shame around what you look like.
and, um,
I
I remember.
In fifth grade, I was
best friends with.
this boy that I need danced with
And we were super, super close. And.
I had it. A dear friend who was a year older than me and she was tall.
Dan and beautiful.
And you know, she’s just,
She likes this boy.
This boy liked me. And I remember.
Um, she started to
to say things to me.
I don’t know why he
likes.
you Because.
Like you’re kind of chubby and
and I’m
so pretty.
And I was just
just like,
yeah, that is weird that
that he likes
You know that he is interested, that he. Has this.
But we have this connection when you
you were so much prettier and I.
ended the sad thing. Is it.
Kind of ruined my relationship.
Again,
I started,
like she started having me like,
write him notes. Like you should
This other
girl.
Because she’s so
in it and it kind of destroyed. Innocent.
Special friendship.
You know that I have with
kid. And, um, because it’s because I felt like I
like I wasn’t.
Worthy.
You know And
And so.
I mean, I could go on and on. I feel like
like this has just been
a journey.
A little part of my life.
and, and kind of like Becky’s thing, it served a purpose.
And
so when I
I
was about 13,
Um,
You know, I got to
feel like Trauma is any any time where our sense
of.
Safety, or
of mattering, our sense that we are worthy of love.
The longing is. threatened in some
some way.
And so I kept getting these
these messages.
know, cause we all long to
to be.
Loved and desired.
You know, like we, like, we matter.
And so these little
shameful messages.
that shame that I had, I,
I just subconsciously.
It was like the answer to secure.
Uh, feeling that I’m worthy of love and I’m
and I’m already.
have.
Um,
attraction and desire.
All of
of that.
It has
has to do with my size And so just
similar But I was about 13. I just
started trying to really control my eating.
my eating. And,
Um, by the time I was
I was in high school.
Had.
Um,
pretty significant.
Eating disorder.
And, um,
And I had a very
very similar experience.
as backup. Becky I’m.
I remember.
Feeling all of
of this.
Internal anger.
because.
I was living in a
in a state of.
total stuff a trail where.
I was like starving myself.
and. Um,
and causing
damage to myself.
both
Like emotionally, mentally. Mentally and physically. But I was being so
incredibly validated. ‘
cause now. No
one questioned if.
You know, the guy.
He liked me and was like, cause I
I spit the picture of what.
it,
Well, of
well of course he likes you because of what you look like, you know um,
and so for a long time, That
just.
My size.
I would, you know, a topic that we
that we
discussed in our
in our program.
is What’s at your center.
So for a long
a long time. It’s like my body was just at my
center
because That was a way
that
I could control
whether or not.
I was you’d and loved and respected.
Um,
okay, so I have to stop you. I have to stop you because again, such good stuff. Um, first of all, the principle of. Ah, I just think of like women, whether we’re super thin and fighting body image by. An eating disorder, whether we’re overweight and fighting body image, just because we’re getting lots of negative feedback from people. It’s all this it’s all the same. Right? It’s we’re all as women.
Struggling and men to struggling with. Um, our culture that values thin above, above everything. And I also love that you said. You were so angry because you were betraying yourself. You were starving yourself. And when you were terrible to yourself, you were validated. That’s that’s a big broken piece in our culture. When we, as women or men starve ourselves and are terrible to ourselves, we are treated better.
Oh, that’s painful. That’s painful. So go back to, um, what is your center I’m interested in that.
You can.
All right
Um,
Okay. So we talk about finding our center. As part of our philosophy and our program is kind of the heart of what
what we do.
And it’s
coming to understand through mindfulness.
This practice of being able to observe. What are my thoughts? What are my
are my feelings?
And just notice that.
in itself is an art. Okay. Is a practice that
Because we typically will. will judge
ourselves
Really quickly. And as soon as we start to judge
judge ourselves,
Then we can’t really see clearly where we’re
we’re at.
we have to learn how to first.
Just see what’s happening.
And
say from a space of loving awareness.
just There’s space for this there’s room for this.
And when we observe.
We can start to see what is at the center. What is kind of like if you picture. You know, a hurricane or something I sent. Sent her that hurricane. Everything’s revolving around something. And typically whatever that thing is, is going to create a whole weather system.
Inside of us.
of us.
medically and emotionally.
So
if another
person is at my center,
like Let’s say
spouse is at my
at my center.
Then everything, all my thoughts are swirling around.
He’s thinking of me, is he.
What’s his perception of me.
me.
Why, why is
I might obsess about his behaviors.
And my emotions will go up and down like a rollercoaster based on how he’s interacting with me, or if I feel validated by
by him or whatever.
Um, when you put your.
Something like your weight at your
center.
Then
your thoughts are always circling around.
What am I eating?
That’s what,
you know, this kind
of all this obsessions happening.
And your emotions are going up and down like a rollercoaster.
It’s a
it’s a
thing. When the scale goes down or the genes zip. Um, I’m really high up
here, but then when Doesn’t happen then. I’m really low. But all of this is swirling around what we’re putting at our
our center.
Does
love that so much. Yep. I love that so much. Um, I have to, I have to, um, share personal stuff here. So for many years I’ve been married for 23 years. And what you said is exactly right. For many years, I put my spouse. As the center of my life and you, and it’s easy. Uh, in our, in our culture to say, oh, I should like, that’s a value. Right? Putting my family in the center of my life is a value.
But, um, you’re exactly right when I am so tied to okay. If he’s happy, then I’m happy. If he’s down, then I’m down. Uh, we had to go through kind of like a, a break in our relationship and come back together in a healthier way, because that’s not sustainable over time. Um, same thing with your body. You can’t have that obsession. I’m always at the center. So I have to, um, I was thinking about it today. So I’m a gym girl. I go to the gym three times a week and I go to this gym. That’s right next to a college. I’m not kidding you guys. Um, I look around the gym. I go to the free weight section.
First of all, one of the only women. And then I’m the only person over 25 guaranteed. And they’re all like rock hard, beautiful bodies that are 20, 22 year old bodies right around me. And I’m 45 and I’m sitting there with them and it’s so easy to get sucked into this mentality of. Uh, my body is a goal. My body has to look a certain way and I have to compete. I think competing is the really, um, when we started to get negative. If you think about bodybuilding, you start to get into like, what, what’s the next step? It’s like a journey, right? It’s.
What’s the next step. Oh, I start competing for how good I look. And so just this morning, I was like, you know what? I can’t do that anymore. I need to put myself in a place where I can work out an exercise, um, in a, in a place that’s really good for me, for my, for my inside as well as my outside.
So will you guys talk to us about what you do? I know you have a program where you talk to us about your program and what you do to help people like me.
I
I think.
um, So,
this program. My rock
rock bottom place
probably eight or nine
or nine years ago.
Um,
I was. Feeling I lived my whole life.
What
was third two things
things that were usually at my center.
One
Was my body. The other
other was what I achieved and what I accomplished.
And so I was always overfunctioning.
And
And we all through my
my life.
just overfunctioning through achievement
and accomplishing more. And.
And figuring out like, and I was
I was, and I was.
Absolute.
people pleaser over. Accommodator. and I hit this point.
About nine years ago
ago. where I was literally just killing myself.
And every aspect of my life and it felt
it felt like
no one was, was
happy with me. and. I
was
like I was failing. That rock
brought out a place was so powerful for
because I had the same experience where I’m
where I’m like this.
I
am not operating in a way.
This is not good.
Everything that I thought
thought was goodness.
like being thin, like achieve meat. Like
I recognize that the, my
my relationship to it was so.
off.
And I needed.
I needed a new way
to
operate and it sent
sent me.
on this. journey.
Um,
And.
When I started to think about.
There Is there a program out there
that can be about the
the body?
That can provide.
You know, some type of like wellness and things But
base
where everything is coming from the
from the inside out.
Because I recognized in my life. I always felt
felt like a performer. I was never.
It was never like.
Experiencing the world through my body. It was. How does it look like
like from the outside and.
And what am I
And how am I
am I
in that? I was not present. To my own inner
world.
to my own body.
and my own system. And.
And as I looked around, I.
I’m like,
there’s Everything is tied to an outcome. Everything is tied to you.
Uh, wait, and they’re like, it
there
there has to be.
Something where it’s about the relationships you have with
with yourself.
And with your body.
And then.
um,
Becky and I.
I say.
Met
Um, we’ve known
known each other for a long time but we met.
three years
years ago.
She
brought over a book.
About trauma.
And we started developing this connection and just hurt.
Um,
Being a
Being a fitness coach. We started talking.
And
that’s where this
this program. I Came from.
So Becky and Nisha, we can’t even scratch the surface of what I wanted to talk about. I still want to talk about how to listen to your body. And everything you’ve said has just been so juicy. I want to get more into what’s at your center. Um, I love the principle of overfunctioning in order to, again, prove our value as we’ve been talking about this whole time.
And this, this phrase that a friend of mine. Uh, used to use, comes to mind, and that is, it’s not what you do. It’s why you do it. It’s a, it’s not that you’re an achiever or have a great marriage or look amazing or like to work out. Uh, it’s not those that are problems. It’s the why we’re doing those things that are problems. And I really want to get into more of that.
So we’re going to make this a second podcast. And so we’re going to wrap this one up and if you want to listen in to the second podcast, we’ll finish with Becky and Nisha here. So quickly as we wrap things up, a reminder that the goal of this podcast is to program your brain, to start instilling systems and habits into your daily life. And just like Becky and Nisha says it has to come from this beautiful place. We don’t want to instill systems and habits that come from a broken place, trying to prove our worth, trying to earn our worth.
Um, it’s not about what you know, it’s about what you do and, uh, starting one very small step at a time. So the giveaway from our sponsor card salad, if you’re listening to this in a podcast format, go to habits for humans.com, find Becky and Nisha’s podcast and sign up for a free seven day eat real foods challenge.
This is a week of meal planning done for you. So recipes, shopping lists and habit cards to get you started on your very gentle journey to wellness. Um, our next episode, we’re going to continue with Becky and Nisha, and we’re going to talk about how to listen to this body of ours. And if we don’t put our spouse and we don’t put our kids and we don’t put our body and we don’t put our accomplishments in the center of our life, what actually does belong in the center of our life.
Um, our giveaway from Becky and Nisha, we have a discount code, uh, to their course or their daily practice. They’re going to talk more about that in the next podcast. Uh, but they’ve got the discount code and that’s in the show notes below on habits for humans.com. So thank you for joining us, Becky and Nisha. And we’re going to have you come one more time here and just a second.
Uh, thanks to our listeners. This is habits for humans, the podcast that teaches you how to program your brain to maximize your potential and reminder that you can get that free week of, uh, mess recipes or mess appease done for you. Meal planning done for you. At uh, habits for humans.com and start your seven day eat real food challenge.
Thank you in advance everyone for giving us a positive review and have a wonderful day. Thank you.
Hi, and welcome to habits for humans. The podcast that explores what makes people tick and how to program this brain of ours, this body of ours. And today we’re going to talk about programming our emotions as well, which is kind of. Uh, which is kind of cool. Uh, we’re going to program them to do what we want them to do is not a novel thought. We’re going to explore what we can sometimes. And in some areas of our lives achieve extraordinary accomplishments.
And in other areas, we are addicted to Cheetos and sleep 10 hours a day. If we want to be healthy and happy, what is the secret to programming our brain to maximizing our potential? I’m your host, Kim Flynn. And today we’re going to talk. Uh, to Becky Mueller and Nisha Woodhouse. Uh, both Becky and Nisha have spent years of their lives devoting themselves to healing their own past traumas. Both women experienced eating disorders.
In their younger years and struggled with body trauma. Um, and they have given me a statement. I absolutely love. They said your body will give you wisdom. You can’t access in any other way. I’ve been looking forward to this podcast ever since talking to them a bit ago and wanting to hear, uh, how do you access this wisdom?
Actually, Becky and Nisha, I’ve been, I’ve been paying attention ever since I talked to you about what my body is trying to tell me. And I got to tell you it’s, it’s, it’s sending out signals that I don’t know how to read them. So I’m excited to hear from you guys on how to read what your body is trying to tell you.
Cause I’m not speaking that language yet. So I would love to hear, um, And explore that with them. We have a giveaway for our listeners at the end, from both Becky and Nisha and also from our sponsor card salad. Uh, so if you like free stuff, stay tuned until the end. A word from our sponsor habits for humans is brought to you by card salad. It’s a health and wellness company.
That teaches you how to program your brain using systems and habits. So you know how everyone wants to eat healthy, but meal planning is a pain in the rear. It is, it takes hours a week. And I know this because I do it every week for my company. It’s called card salad. We do done for you meal planning.
So here’s your meal planning board behind me, recipes. You hang it on your fridge. Your kids always know what to eat and you don’t go to the freezer for quick, you know, Mac and cheese, frozen pizza and chicken nuggets. Uh, because your meal planning is all done for you. It comes with shopping lists for you every week, as well as habit cards to slowly build those habits and systematize your eating.
Um, so stay tuned at the end of this podcast, we have a free one week of content for you with one week of recipes. One week of shopping lists, your meal planning done for you for a week. So stay tuned to the end of this podcast. And we’ll give that to you. So let’s introduce Becky and Nisha, Becky Mueller and Nisha Woodhouse, own Lifehouse, body and soul, a wellness center that offers minus, sorry, mindfulness, meditation, fitness and community. Becky has over 15 years experience teaching group exercise and mindful meditation.
Uh, as former executive director of essay lifeline foundation, she also has years of experience in 12 step recovery. Really interesting writing recovery materials, developing programs and curriculums and facilitating groups, Nisha owns and operates Lifehouse performing arts academy. One of the largest performing arts studios in Utah.
We’re so excited to have you guys here. Welcome. Thank you. Yes. So let’s jump in here. Talk to me about, uh, I don’t want to go too deeply into the trauma that you experienced, but if you wouldn’t mind touching on that, um, telling us about the body trauma that you’ve experienced and then how you listen to your bodies. Let’s jump in there. So Becky, if you want to start and then Nisha after.
Um, Lycra.
With
Wisconsin.
And the people in Wisconsin. But my family, all the people around me. They’re just enjoying life and.
just
a
little bit
bit bigger.
And I’m feeling like that was normal. That was
probably
the way I
way I was gonna
Live my life.
um, when I was about 18. as perfectionists alive. As my life and suddenly that perfectionism.
Shifted over to that body.
body.
and
and I.
of just stopped eating.
And
became really.
Focused on.
My body.
Shape and
weight.
And I saw. Really clearly how.
um,
As my size diminished.
My value. Escalated.
Socially. Um, in a lot of ways.
And
uh
so for the next 18 years of my life, I lost my period.
Because I was too thin. And
And then for the next about 18
of my life,
I
Didn’t have a
period And
and I am struggled with.
Infertility then obviously.
And.
Just
of
carrying the weight of.
This body anxiety.
Um,
and.
trauma around my body. But I also felt that it was manageable and I also felt that
that it was somewhat normal.
And.
um, Then I.
Experienced another trauma.
Totally out of. Left-field and
and that was betrayal trauma.
And that
just absolutely.
kind of.
me
me down.
When you talk about rock-bottom.
That was a rock bottom. It
was,
it was a place where I was definitely in over.
my
ability to
Cope or
or the tools that I had.
Use the
rest of my life.
to scratch through and, um,
Suck it
it up.
Or
However you might say.
Just, we’re
not We’re not working.
Okay. So I have to stop you there for a second. This is such good stuff. You’ve said like five things that I’m like, oh, that’s good. Oh, that’s good. Um, so you talked about as my size diminished, my social value increased. I think that’s a reality, um, that oftentimes me and other people who talk a lot about body positivity and, um, and, and, and whole health, um, it kind of gloss over and that is, there really is social value in our culture to being really thin.
And it’s interesting that, um, that you just admit that and say, yes, my social value went up. So I want you to talk more about that. Let’s actually start there. Talk to me more about that first.
Yeah, well, I think my whole early life.
I
really put my value in other
of.
My personality because I. I didn’t feel that my
my appearance was.
Super valuable.
I
didn’t see myself as attractive or it wasn’t received.
We’re seeing that kind of attention. So I
became really academic and really smart and a really high achiever.
And,
And um, It’s interesting. That when I shifted that focus and suddenly I
I was.
Getting.
a
as being attractive.
Everything else I have to say.
Suddenly mattered more.
more.
Suddenly people listen more.
to what I
I had to say.
And I think that puts us in an
in an interesting position as women.
Um
Um, because.
We want to have power. Because of who we are.
And yet we have to grapple with the reality that in the world.
we’re
we’re living in.
somehow.
Our
our appearance.
Um,
Does affect the way. The way
we’re received. That’s the way people
us.
Yeah
something that we have to kind of.
Figure out how to grapple with that. You know,
know, it’s, it’s a complex topic. We want women to have power, right? We want us to be able to do whatever we want to do. Um, but the, the culture that we live in right now says you will have more power, more value. If you look like society standards, it’s, it’s dicey. It’s a dicey topic. I’m glad you brought that up and just said it is a conundrum here. Um,
Okay. So thanks for bringing that up. Another, another topic, um, that just hit home for me. Um, the first topic hit home for me too. I get it. And I lived that and I feel that, and I see. Uh, influencers online saying, why do I get 10 times the likes when I put makeup on versus when I don’t, you know, like, why is that so tied for women? Why does our power have to come through beauty through society’s standards of beauty? Right.
Um, so you and me both drives me crazy. Okay. The next one is body anxiety. You thought it was normal and it was manageable. I think that’s where 99% of the population lives. Um, we have body anxiety. We know that we don’t love feeling this uncomfortableness, but it’s manageable. Will you talk to me more about that?
And I promise we will get to you. We will get to both of you, but this is such good stuff.
That’s great stuff.
Um,
I would say. I thought that that was normal. I thought my life was kind of
of this dance
as I was in these childbearing years.
I wanted to have a family,
this dance of like
Gaining a little bit of weight.
ways so I
get pregnant and then. Nursing.
Restricting calories.
And getting
see how skinny I
could get back.
Before I
I had to kind of.
Do the whole thing.
Um, over again.
And I felt that that was normal. And I felt that I was managing that pretty well.
but
And this is kind of.
I want to put this in there because I think it also speaks to the last topic.
when I
hit this. Wow.
The trail trauma.
and my husband had.
um Betrayed me.
That happened at a time when my
weight was like,
The lowest.
had been in my
my married life.
And I
I had to hit a point.
That trauma, as opposed to the body trauma. Was not
not manageable for me.
I could not just push through the day and
and just kind of be stressed or anxious or whatever.
was like, I was
flat on the
floor and I could not function.
And
That was a
was a
in my
in my life.
Because it pushed me to the place where I had to recognize there was. There had to be another way to live. And it actually took me to the place where I could get to the roots.
Of those beliefs.
And say. You know, obviously there was something in me that thought I was protecting myself somehow.
From abandonment.
Rejection.
But I was somehow securing.
love by being thin.
And that was what was driving this.
Behavior. Anxiety in
and this.
This drive.
And clearly. It didn’t work. So as I.
Hit that place.
And could see very clearly. The fruitlessness of all those efforts. That’d be trail.
Trauma
That rock bottom is what created the space and the possibility for me to find.
Another way
to live.
To actually heal to actually heal. Instead of.
Right.
So the eating disorders were all band-aids trying to prove your value, prove your value. And so finally you had this blowout in your life where you couldn’t just manage it through a band-aid you had to heal. That is so powerful.
So powerful. Okay. Nisha. I want to hear from you, Becky. Thank you so much. That was, uh, made me cry maybe. Uh, teared up a little bit. That powerful story. Go ahead, Nisha. I want to hear, I want to hear from you.
It was so I,
So the first thing
thing that I.
experienced body trauma was
when I was four years.
old.
Um,
I came home from a
from a dance class.
And.
was wearing a little leotard and.
I remember vividly.
Coming down the stairs to make.
And my
my sister who was
or 13 was.
At junior high
high cheerleader.
And she was having practice.
Um, in her family room. And.
so some of her cheerleading friends were over. And I
was just
around the room.
You can
in just a typical little kid.
where.
There’s no.
like self objectification
at that point.
I was
in my body.
Um,
And one of my sister’s friends looked at me. And she
she looked at my sister.
And
she just.
It just felt like
this.
distain, like
She said. She has.
a belly.
And it was
was this like,
As a little child.
I just
just remember.
You know,
just feeling fleshed and all of
this
he was the first time that I
that I felt shame.
And.
I just
just
the little preschooler.
And then it’ll
That little belly. But it felt like something is wrong with
with me.
Um,
and I remember running upstairs.
Hiding behind my bed.
and just crying.
I want in my room and I never told anyone.
it felt
so
so incredibly.
shameful.
Um,
and then, and growing up.
like I, um,
I was not like.
Through grade
school and stuff. I wasn’t.
thin.
just a little more ground
And I had another experience I had. I had multiple, like little, those little
little messages.
they get sent to you that.
Just,
You know, create shame around what you look like.
and, um,
I
I remember.
In fifth grade, I was
best friends with.
this boy that I need danced with
And we were super, super close. And.
I had it. A dear friend who was a year older than me and she was tall.
Dan and beautiful.
And you know, she’s just,
She likes this boy.
This boy liked me. And I remember.
Um, she started to
to say things to me.
I don’t know why he
likes.
you Because.
Like you’re kind of chubby and
and I’m
so pretty.
And I was just
just like,
yeah, that is weird that
that he likes
You know that he is interested, that he. Has this.
But we have this connection when you
you were so much prettier and I.
ended the sad thing. Is it.
Kind of ruined my relationship.
Again,
I started,
like she started having me like,
write him notes. Like you should
This other
girl.
Because she’s so
in it and it kind of destroyed. Innocent.
Special friendship.
You know that I have with
kid. And, um, because it’s because I felt like I
like I wasn’t.
Worthy.
You know And
And so.
I mean, I could go on and on. I feel like
like this has just been
a journey.
A little part of my life.
and, and kind of like Becky’s thing, it served a purpose.
And
so when I
I
was about 13,
Um,
You know, I got to
feel like Trauma is any any time where our sense
of.
Safety, or
of mattering, our sense that we are worthy of love.
The longing is. threatened in some
some way.
And so I kept getting these
these messages.
know, cause we all long to
to be.
Loved and desired.
You know, like we, like, we matter.
And so these little
shameful messages.
that shame that I had, I,
I just subconsciously.
It was like the answer to secure.
Uh, feeling that I’m worthy of love and I’m
and I’m already.
have.
Um,
attraction and desire.
All of
of that.
It has
has to do with my size And so just
similar But I was about 13. I just
started trying to really control my eating.
my eating. And,
Um, by the time I was
I was in high school.
Had.
Um,
pretty significant.
Eating disorder.
And, um,
And I had a very
very similar experience.
as backup. Becky I’m.
I remember.
Feeling all of
of this.
Internal anger.
because.
I was living in a
in a state of.
total stuff a trail where.
I was like starving myself.
and. Um,
and causing
damage to myself.
both
Like emotionally, mentally. Mentally and physically. But I was being so
incredibly validated. ‘
cause now. No
one questioned if.
You know, the guy.
He liked me and was like, cause I
I spit the picture of what.
it,
Well, of
well of course he likes you because of what you look like, you know um,
and so for a long time, That
just.
My size.
I would, you know, a topic that we
that we
discussed in our
in our program.
is What’s at your center.
So for a long
a long time. It’s like my body was just at my
center
because That was a way
that
I could control
whether or not.
I was you’d and loved and respected.
Um,
okay, so I have to stop you. I have to stop you because again, such good stuff. Um, first of all, the principle of. Ah, I just think of like women, whether we’re super thin and fighting body image by. An eating disorder, whether we’re overweight and fighting body image, just because we’re getting lots of negative feedback from people. It’s all this it’s all the same. Right? It’s we’re all as women.
Struggling and men to struggling with. Um, our culture that values thin above, above everything. And I also love that you said. You were so angry because you were betraying yourself. You were starving yourself. And when you were terrible to yourself, you were validated. That’s that’s a big broken piece in our culture. When we, as women or men starve ourselves and are terrible to ourselves, we are treated better.
Oh, that’s painful. That’s painful. So go back to, um, what is your center I’m interested in that.
You can.
All right
Um,
Okay. So we talk about finding our center. As part of our philosophy and our program is kind of the heart of what
what we do.
And it’s
coming to understand through mindfulness.
This practice of being able to observe. What are my thoughts? What are my
are my feelings?
And just notice that.
in itself is an art. Okay. Is a practice that
Because we typically will. will judge
ourselves
Really quickly. And as soon as we start to judge
judge ourselves,
Then we can’t really see clearly where we’re
we’re at.
we have to learn how to first.
Just see what’s happening.
And
say from a space of loving awareness.
just There’s space for this there’s room for this.
And when we observe.
We can start to see what is at the center. What is kind of like if you picture. You know, a hurricane or something I sent. Sent her that hurricane. Everything’s revolving around something. And typically whatever that thing is, is going to create a whole weather system.
Inside of us.
of us.
medically and emotionally.
So
if another
person is at my center,
like Let’s say
spouse is at my
at my center.
Then everything, all my thoughts are swirling around.
He’s thinking of me, is he.
What’s his perception of me.
me.
Why, why is
I might obsess about his behaviors.
And my emotions will go up and down like a rollercoaster based on how he’s interacting with me, or if I feel validated by
by him or whatever.
Um, when you put your.
Something like your weight at your
center.
Then
your thoughts are always circling around.
What am I eating?
That’s what,
you know, this kind
of all this obsessions happening.
And your emotions are going up and down like a rollercoaster.
It’s a
it’s a
thing. When the scale goes down or the genes zip. Um, I’m really high up
here, but then when Doesn’t happen then. I’m really low. But all of this is swirling around what we’re putting at our
our center.
Does
love that so much. Yep. I love that so much. Um, I have to, I have to, um, share personal stuff here. So for many years I’ve been married for 23 years. And what you said is exactly right. For many years, I put my spouse. As the center of my life and you, and it’s easy. Uh, in our, in our culture to say, oh, I should like, that’s a value. Right? Putting my family in the center of my life is a value.
But, um, you’re exactly right when I am so tied to okay. If he’s happy, then I’m happy. If he’s down, then I’m down. Uh, we had to go through kind of like a, a break in our relationship and come back together in a healthier way, because that’s not sustainable over time. Um, same thing with your body. You can’t have that obsession. I’m always at the center. So I have to, um, I was thinking about it today. So I’m a gym girl. I go to the gym three times a week and I go to this gym. That’s right next to a college. I’m not kidding you guys. Um, I look around the gym. I go to the free weight section.
First of all, one of the only women. And then I’m the only person over 25 guaranteed. And they’re all like rock hard, beautiful bodies that are 20, 22 year old bodies right around me. And I’m 45 and I’m sitting there with them and it’s so easy to get sucked into this mentality of. Uh, my body is a goal. My body has to look a certain way and I have to compete. I think competing is the really, um, when we started to get negative. If you think about bodybuilding, you start to get into like, what, what’s the next step? It’s like a journey, right? It’s.
What’s the next step. Oh, I start competing for how good I look. And so just this morning, I was like, you know what? I can’t do that anymore. I need to put myself in a place where I can work out an exercise, um, in a, in a place that’s really good for me, for my, for my inside as well as my outside.
So will you guys talk to us about what you do? I know you have a program where you talk to us about your program and what you do to help people like me.
I
I think.
um, So,
this program. My rock
rock bottom place
probably eight or nine
or nine years ago.
Um,
I was. Feeling I lived my whole life.
What
was third two things
things that were usually at my center.
One
Was my body. The other
other was what I achieved and what I accomplished.
And so I was always overfunctioning.
And
And we all through my
my life.
just overfunctioning through achievement
and accomplishing more. And.
And figuring out like, and I was
I was, and I was.
Absolute.
people pleaser over. Accommodator. and I hit this point.
About nine years ago
ago. where I was literally just killing myself.
And every aspect of my life and it felt
it felt like
no one was, was
happy with me. and. I
was
like I was failing. That rock
brought out a place was so powerful for
because I had the same experience where I’m
where I’m like this.
I
am not operating in a way.
This is not good.
Everything that I thought
thought was goodness.
like being thin, like achieve meat. Like
I recognize that the, my
my relationship to it was so.
off.
And I needed.
I needed a new way
to
operate and it sent
sent me.
on this. journey.
Um,
And.
When I started to think about.
There Is there a program out there
that can be about the
the body?
That can provide.
You know, some type of like wellness and things But
base
where everything is coming from the
from the inside out.
Because I recognized in my life. I always felt
felt like a performer. I was never.
It was never like.
Experiencing the world through my body. It was. How does it look like
like from the outside and.
And what am I
And how am I
am I
in that? I was not present. To my own inner
world.
to my own body.
and my own system. And.
And as I looked around, I.
I’m like,
there’s Everything is tied to an outcome. Everything is tied to you.
Uh, wait, and they’re like, it
there
there has to be.
Something where it’s about the relationships you have with
with yourself.
And with your body.
And then.
um,
Becky and I.
I say.
Met
Um, we’ve known
known each other for a long time but we met.
three years
years ago.
She
brought over a book.
About trauma.
And we started developing this connection and just hurt.
Um,
Being a
Being a fitness coach. We started talking.
And
that’s where this
this program. I Came from.
So Becky and Nisha, we can’t even scratch the surface of what I wanted to talk about. I still want to talk about how to listen to your body. And everything you’ve said has just been so juicy. I want to get more into what’s at your center. Um, I love the principle of overfunctioning in order to, again, prove our value as we’ve been talking about this whole time.
And this, this phrase that a friend of mine. Uh, used to use, comes to mind, and that is, it’s not what you do. It’s why you do it. It’s a, it’s not that you’re an achiever or have a great marriage or look amazing or like to work out. Uh, it’s not those that are problems. It’s the why we’re doing those things that are problems. And I really want to get into more of that.
So we’re going to make this a second podcast. And so we’re going to wrap this one up and if you want to listen in to the second podcast, we’ll finish with Becky and Nisha here. So quickly as we wrap things up, a reminder that the goal of this podcast is to program your brain, to start instilling systems and habits into your daily life. And just like Becky and Nisha says it has to come from this beautiful place. We don’t want to instill systems and habits that come from a broken place, trying to prove our worth, trying to earn our worth.
Um, it’s not about what you know, it’s about what you do and, uh, starting one very small step at a time. So the giveaway from our sponsor card salad, if you’re listening to this in a podcast format, go to habits for humans.com, find Becky and Nisha’s podcast and sign up for a free seven day eat real foods challenge.
This is a week of meal planning done for you. So recipes, shopping lists and habit cards to get you started on your very gentle journey to wellness. Um, our next episode, we’re going to continue with Becky and Nisha, and we’re going to talk about how to listen to this body of ours. And if we don’t put our spouse and we don’t put our kids and we don’t put our body and we don’t put our accomplishments in the center of our life, what actually does belong in the center of our life.
Um, our giveaway from Becky and Nisha, we have a discount code, uh, to their course or their daily practice. They’re going to talk more about that in the next podcast. Uh, but they’ve got the discount code and that’s in the show notes below on habits for humans.com. So thank you for joining us, Becky and Nisha. And we’re going to have you come one more time here and just a second.
Uh, thanks to our listeners. This is habits for humans, the podcast that teaches you how to program your brain to maximize your potential and reminder that you can get that free week of, uh, mess recipes or mess appease done for you. Meal planning done for you. At uh, habits for humans.com and start your seven day eat real food challenge.
Thank you in advance everyone for giving us a positive review and have a wonderful day. Thank you.